Some Updates and Discussion points for Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets Chapters 16-18

But first some updates: The DA partay has been cancelled due to busy selves, and you, yes YOU, that means you, have an assingment. At Cindy's suggestion instead of me doing all the discussion points, we will all be in charge of one chapter, to see how that works out. These will need to be emailed to me by Tues, Jan 10, so I can print them, and have a day and a half to harrass you if you don't do your job. Here are the assignments for Jan 12:
POA Chapter 1: TJ
POA Chapter 2: Cindy
POA Chapter 3: Becs
POA Chapter 4: Chris

Ta dum! Comment if there are any questions. Ultimate Guides are available for borrow or purchase at Russo's, possibly at an additional discount (I will ask if anyone is interested). Also we might be going ice-blocking sometime in the next few weeks so express interest if there is any.

We might be getting some new members, as I wrote a blurb for Mike to put in the January newsletter if he doesn't forget.


Chapter 16: The Chamber of Secrets

291: Interesting that no one managed to look the Basalisk in the eye—I wonder if Ginny had some control over it or at least tried not to kill anyone. Might there have been some subconcious prevention? Or perhaps JKR just wasn't ready to kill anyone yet.


293: Dumbledore always said..." What? Now that the school really is in danger of being closed, I wonder what would have caused Dumbledore to make that decision. It isn't just the death of a student (Cedric). Does it have anything to do with the fact that McGonagall was one of the only few aware who actually opened the chamber last time (Riddle)? Could this be a clue that Hogwarts will closed next year, since Voldemort is back?



Chapter 17: The Heir of Slytherin

310: "Powerful enough to start feeding Miss Weasley a few of my secrets, to start pouring a little of my soul back into her..." What secrets? What all does Ginny know? Jo has said there are no remnants of Tom's possession in her, but that doesn’t mean she may not remember things. It could be useful or not... or, because she has blank spots in her memory, she might not remember--she's blocked it.


313: and speaking of secrets--and our discussion earlier of Ginny stealing back to diary & writing in it again: "What if you found out how to work it, and I repeated all her secrets to you? What if, even worse, I told you who'd been strangling roosters?" What secrets, other than that she was opening the Chamber, could Ginny have been afraid Riddle would tell Harry? The fact that she liked him wasn't exactly a secret... But I get the impression Ginny began to write in the journal again to find out exactly what Riddle had told Harry. [Brothers' teasing, etc]


315: Compare to the phoenix song scene in HBP, also with Ginny. And here Fawkes is singing while he is apparating-ish into the Chamber of Secrets--was he going somewhere during HBP? Perhaps to the white tomb with Dumbledore, woe.
Do phoenixs get new 'masters' when their old ones die? Will Harry be loyal to Dumbledore at some point later on, and will Fawkes come to his rescue?


323: Difference in the British edition I noticed... too bad I don't have it to reference. Ginny pulls away from Ron when he tries to hug her--In my mind this scene is connected to the one in the underground in OOTP where Harry has just learned he may be possessed by Voldemort and is feeling v dirty/used.



Chapter 18: Dobby's Reward

329: Voldemort "underwent so many dangerous, magical transformation" such as making the horcruxes--perhaps splitting one's soul can have an effect on one's appearance.


332; Ultimate Guide 134: ancestor vs. descendant. Were the Riddles the very very last? Dumbledore says yes, but perhaps this is his big mistake...


331: "Impaled on your own sword, Gilderoy!" Dumbledore knew Gilderoy hadn't done the things in the books... but there was no one else for the job. Still perhaps the lesson was enough for Dumbledore to call out favors on friends to serve as DADA teachers for the next three years. Also he wanted Harry to have a good teacher.


Ultimate Guide 134: What did other people at Hogwarts know about Ginny's involvement? Hermione probably knew but other than that no one else...? Malfoy must have known but did he tell Draco?

Some CoS points

Catching up on my reading, I noticed some things from earlier chapters:

146: "While Filch wasn't guarding the scene of the crime, he was sulking red-eyed through the corridors, lunging out at unsuspecting students and trying to out them in detention for things like "breathing loudly" and "looking happy."" These punishments reminded me a bit of stories from nurses in occupied Belgium during WWI, when the Germans made it illegal to go about with anything but a cheerful countenance.

151: Professor Binns explained the legend of the Chamber of Secrets, but denied its existence. Was he lying, or did he not know? Mr. Malfoy knew the chamber had been opened by Riddle, but the rest of the wizarding world blamed Hagrid's monster for the death of Myrtle. However, we know from the conversation Harry overheard in the hospital wing when Colin was petrified (180-181) that Dumbledore, McGonagall, and Madame Pomfrey all knew the Chamber of Secrets existed and had been opened. Perhaps it makes sense that, if not all the Hogwarts teachers knew, they would. Dumbledore, also, knew right away that it was Riddle opening it: "The question is not who [but] how..."

What do you guys think?

Discussion points for December 15 Chamber of Secrets chapters 13-15

Chapter 13: The Very Secret Diary
230: The diary. "Are you crazy? It could be dangerous."

232: "Maybe [Tom Riddle] murdered Myrtle; that would've done everyone a favor..."
233: Harry's unexplained obsession with the diary
234: The Trophy room guide p. 116

243: Riddle wanted to stay at Hogwarts over summer; the Dursley's asked
Harry to find out if he could do the same
 
Chapter 14: Cornelius Fudge

250 Hagrid in Knockturn Alley
258: "Harry now knew exactly how he felt" (yet again sympathizing with
Tom Riddle)
263-4: "I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me..."

 
Chapter 15: Aragog
McGonagall is headmistress
 
 
Updated Reading Schedule:
Dec 29: CoS 16-19

2006--Prisoner of Azkaban
Jan 12: 1-14
Jan 26: 5-8
Feb 9: 9-12
Feb 23: 13-16
Mar 9: 17-19
Mar 23: 20-22

Whoo! Save the date

Partaee Friday, December 30th at Cindy's! Details, plus the last three meeting's dicussion points, to come.

Also, here is an updated reading schedule:
Dec 29: CoS 16-19

2006--Prisoner of Azkaban
Jan 12: 1-4
Jan 26: 5-8
Feb 9: 9-12
Feb 23: 13-16
Mar 9: 17-19
Mar 23 20-22

Goblet of Fire!

Be on the look out for movie plans here probably on Wed.

Discussion points for Thursday October 27: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets chapters 1-4

Chapter 1: The Worst Birthday
1. P3 The Dursleys: "not a drop of magical blood in their veins" (or is there?)

Chapter 2: Dobby's Warning
1. P 16 "Dobby has known about it for months, sir" meaning the diary plot has been going on since before the end of the school year
2. "Harry Potter must not put himself in peril. He is too important, sir!" Maybe Dobby has learned from the Malfoys about the prophecy—or at least the part they know.
3. P 17: "there are powers Dumbledore doesn't…powers no decent wizard…" does Dobby know about Horcruxes as well?

Chapter 3: The Burrow
1. P29: I feel like there is something important in this conversation but can't figure out what. The unofficial guide wonders why such powerful creatures as house-elves became subservient to wizards.
2. P 38: Mundungus Fletcher tried to hex Mr Weasley

Chapter 4: At Flourish And Blotts
1. P 42: socks again
2. P52 Malfoy:"I have important business elsewhere today—"
3. "Magnificent necklace of opals" is this the same necklace that cursed Katie?
4. P 55 Was Hagrid really looking for Flesh-Eating slug repellant in Knockturn Alley?
5. P 58: Wonder who else is in Prefects Who Gained Power?
6. P 63: Hermione's parents don't sound very brave.

Discussion points for October 13: Sorcerer's Stone chapters 14-18

Chapter 14: Norbert the Norwegian Ridgeback
1. 232: Dumbledore trusts Snape enough to have him help protect the stone—also: Quirrell?

Chapter 15: The Forbidden Forest
1. 243: poor Neville!
2. 243: "especially these days, it's very dangerous"—what's so dangerous about these days if McGonagall doesn't know that Voldemort is wandering around?
3. 247: Filch: "too friendly with Snape"
4. 250: "Copyin' lines! What good's that ter anyone?"
5. 257: More of that danger stuff; "The forest is not safe at this time—especially for you."
6. 258: "If you're going to be cursed forever, death's better, isn't it?"
7. 261: "…he was talking about interfering with what the planets say is going to happen…They must show that Voldemort's coming back…Bane thinks Firenze should have let Voldemort kill me… I suppose that's written in the stars as well." It's like a different kind of prophecy. Hermione says: "who says the centaurs are right?"

Chapter 16: Through the Trap Door
1. 271: "All—all three of us?" "Oh, come off it, you don't think we'd let you go along?" and 273: "If you want to go back, I won't blame you," [Harry said]… "Don't be stupid, said Ron. "We're coming," said Hermione.
2. 272: poor brave Neville
3. 283: Snape would have done well on the LSAT… maybe.

Chapter 17: The Man with Two Faces
1. 290: Quirrell, about Snape: "But he never wanted you dead."
2. 294: "But your mother needn't have died."
3. 297: "to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure."
4. 298: "not being truly alive, he cannot be killed."
5. 299: How does Dumbledore know so much about the night Lily died? (see unofficial guide, 65).
6. Did James leave his invisibility cloak & Gringotts key with Dumbledore because he was afraid something might happen? (Unofficial guide, 66)

Discussion points for Thursday, September 29, 2005. Sorcerer’s Stone, chapters 10-13

Chapter 10: Halloween
1. p 172. Hermione has no friends: Lavender & Parvati seem nice enough, and less gossipy in this book—Parvati sticks up for Neville (147) and Harry (149) during the flying lesson—and care enough about Hermione to check up on her in the girls bathroom. But it’s easy to see why Hermione didn’t mesh with them, although they must have been in Gryffindor for a reason.
2. P 173 “Percy was in his element”—this seems to me to speak of hither-to unrealized potential.
3. P 175 “It was the last thing they wanted to do, but what choice did they have?” seems to emphasize the heroic nature of both Harry and Ron.
4. P 176 “very brave and very stupid”—typical.
5. P 179—It took a mountain troll—and Hermione overcoming her non-rule-breaking nature enough to lie to Prof. McGonagall—for Harry & Ron to become friends with Hermione. (see also p 181)

Chapter 11: Quidditch
1. Harry is reading Quidditch Through the Ages—according to this books, the golden snitch was invented by “Bowman Wright of Godric’s Hollow” (p 14).
2. P182 Snape’s Fluffy wounds were treated by Filch, not Madame Pomfrey.
3. P 183 “I know he’s not very nice, but he wouldn’t try and steal something Dumbledore’s keeping safe.” Hermione said, but she suspects him first when Harry’s broom acts up in the match (190). Ron doesn’t trust Snape, either.

Chapter 12: The Mirror of Erised
1. P 194 Only the Weasley twins would hit Voldemort in the face with snowballs
2. P 198 Madame Pince is rather a nosy librarian
3. 202 Wonder why Dumbledore had James’ invisibility cloak?
4. 203 “Christmas is a time for family”—makes me think the twins would eventually forgive Percy if he actually wanted it.
5. 207 Filch in league with Snape?
6. 209—Harry’s Family. Why is Aunt Petunia not in the mirror?
7. 212 It’s Ron who realizes the mirror is making Harry act funny (I think sometimes people have the unfair impression of him as stupid, but if you ask me he’s not, and he’s really good at chess—“Chess was the only thing Hermione ever lost at, something Harry and Ron thought was very good for her.” (217)
8. 214 What does Dumbledore see in the mirror? Is it really socks? (Maybe socks are a euphemism for something… they are mentioned a lot in the series)

Chapter 13: Nicholas Flamel
1. 218 Neville: “The Sorting Hat chose you fro Gryffindor, didn’t it?” He takes on Crabbe & Goyle—224.
2. 221 Harry “sometimes had the horrible feeling that Snape could read minds.”
3. 224 Perhaps Hermione is now getting along better with her roommates—“dancing up and down on her seat and hugging Parvati Patil”
4. 226 Snape confronting Quirrell—protecting Dumbledore’s interests, or his own?
5. Hagrid gives Harry a whistle that sounds like an owl (200), and an owl’s hoot obscures part of the conversation he is listening in on… coincidence?

And another one

I also found this.

Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

Some interesting stuff I found

JKR has a section in her site where she addresses various questions posed by fans. Here are a couple questions and answers that I found interseting. Dun dun dun dun. (I've inserted bold or italics to draw attention to what I thought was interesting/important).


Q: What Dumbledore’s Howler to Aunt Petunia mean? (Remember my last...)

Rowling says, "Well, it is a relief to move on after the Mark Evans fiasco. This time, two out of the three poll questions had interesting answers (or so I think) and thank goodness you chose one of them.

So, Dumbledore is referring to his last letter, which means, of course, the letter he left upon the Durleys’ doorstep when Harry was one year old. But why then (you may well ask) did he not just say 'remember my letter?' Why, obviously because there were letters before that…

Now let the speculation begin, and mind you type clearly, I’ll be watching…

PS. It has been suggested that I am wrong in saying that Dumbledore’s last letter was the one he left on the doorstep with baby Harry, and that he has sent a letter since then concerning Harry’s illegal flight to school. However, both Dumbledore and I differentiate between letters sent to the Dursleys as a couple, and messages directed to Petunia ALONE. And that’s my final word on the subject – though I doubt it will be yours."


Q: Why does Harry forget about the mirror in “Order of the Phoenix?”

Rowling says, "I can’t give a full answer to this, because it is relevant to books six and seven. However, the short answer is that Harry was determined never to use the mirror, as is clearly stated in chapter 24: ‘he knew he would never use whatever it was.’ For once in Harry’s life, he does not succumb to curiosity, he hikes the mirror and the temptation away from himself, and then, when it might have been useful, he has forgotten it.

The mirror might not have helped as much as you think, but on the other hand, will help more than you think. You’ll have to read the final books to understand that!


Q: In “Chamber of Secrets” what would have happened if Ginny had died and Tom Riddle had escaped the diary?

Rowling says, "I can’t answer that fully until all seven books are finished, but it would have strengthened the present-day Voldermort considerably."

Discussion points for Thursday September 15, 2005: Sorcerer’s Stone, Chapters 6-9

Chapter 6: The Journey from Platform Nine and Three-Quarters
1. P 92/96 Percy—according to the unofficial guide & Arthurian legend, Percival was responsible for the death of his mother & uncle, and “missed the key opportunity given to him to heal the King of the Grail”. Foreshadowing?
2. P 95—Harry watching the Weasleys! Don’t we love them! (Notice that we meet a lot of the important characters for the first time on the train platform). This scene seems to me to represent all Harry wished for (a family) and what the Weasleys eventually come to mean to him.
3. P 98 Ginny is so cute! Ron says that “everywhere else is full,” but the twins say Lee Jordan has a tarantula in the middle of the train.
4. P 104-105: Hermione (she’s a bit annoying, isn’t she) and Neville.

Chapter 7: The Sorting Hat
1. P 117: The Sorting Hat as a horcrux?
2. 120 Both Neville and Seamus take a long time to get sorted
3. 125 Neville’s great-uncle Algie (and his gifts) might be important

Chapter 8: The Potions Master
1. 134 Quirrell’s garlic smell is supposedly to ward off a “vampire” he encountered in Romania—maybe this is where he ran into Voldemort. How convenient to have a Weasley there, should we need to visit.
2. 141 Hagrid seems to know that Snape hates Harry—is it because of James, or something else?

Chapter 9: The Midnight Duel
1. 153 It’s pointed out as a possible clue in the unofficial guide that the trophy room is always unlocked. After it was suggested on mugglecast (I think) that Tom Riddle’s special services to the school trophy (CoS) might be a horcrux, this information jumped at me. If it’s unlocked than it would have been easy for Voldemort to get into it, but he probably wouldn’t have been able to wander around Hogwarts without Dumbledore knowing it… thoughts? The unofficial guide also points out that although the trophy room is on the third floor here, by book for it is on the sixth. Maybe it is a moving room?
2. 157 Could the “Curse of the Bogies” be the Bat-Bogey hex?
3. Neville seems to be hanging around Ron, Hermione, and Harry a lot in this book, but then he basically disappears until the fifth book, where he has a bigger part. Is this a clue that he will be an important ally in the end? Did JKR originally intend for Neville to be closer friends with the trio? Would things have worked out differently had Neville been present at the troll incident (coming in chapter ten) or did he need the time apart to develop his own character (and bravery)?

Misc. stuff

Becca has this interesting philospohical pondering on her weblog, and it sorta relates to Harry (or at least in my mind it does, see why in the comments).

Also lately I have been obsessed with the HP podcasts. Both Mugglenet and The Leaky Cauldron have one, and they have been going strong for a few weeks now. They are both really funny--I'm sure people think I'm even crazier than I am when they see me laugh aloud with my headphones on. I especially enjoy the mugglenet boys' bantering, and the fact that Chris Rankin, my boyfriend the actor who plays Percy Weasley in the movies, is a regular guest on pottercast. Podcasts are really easy to get if you have iTunes, and great to listen to while you are cleaning, etc.

The pottercasts have given me several ideas for our future discussions, such as: Could Tom Riddle's special services to the school trophy be a horcrux? Is Stubby Borgman, of Quibbler fame, actually Regulas Black?

I will post the discussion points for tomorrow in the morning (ish), but be sure to check out the new trailer for GoF, which is also being released tomorrow.

Article of Interest

Here's a linkie to an interesting article about different theories abounding among those who, like us, are re-reading the series to hunt for clues. Most of them we've discussed, but there are some new ones, too.

I promise to get those hand-outs (and email everyone their invites) up soon!

Welcome to the Room of Requirement

So, you finally made it inside. Congratulations. Welcome to the private website of the DA. Well, not private, but if you snitch on us, you'd better watch your forehead. Anyways, feel free to post your thoughts, comments, or general ideas here as you think of them. We'll make sure to bring all the ideas from the previous weeks to the meeting on Thursdays.

Points of discussion for September 1, 2005, Sorcerer’s Stone Chapters 1-5.

Chapter 1: The Boy Who Lived
1. P 12. Dumbledore’s watch is just like the one Ron got for his birthday—does this mean something?
2. P 15. D refusal to remove scar—says they can be useful. In a way it did come in handy. How much can D. have known at the time? P. 12: “We can only guess… We may never know.”
3. P 15. Hagrid flew over Bristol to get to the Dursley’s, in Surrey. This can be a clue to the location of Godric’s Hollow. Quick, someone get a map of Britain!
4. Also, almost a whole day passed between Voldemort’s disappearance and the delivery of Harry to the Dursley’s. Was the house (or Harry) having special enchantments put on it during this time? Or what?

Chapter 2: The Vanishing Glass
1. P. 28. Boa Constrictor, Brazil. Can this be Nagini? (We don’t actually know if the snake was recaptured or not, but is seems likely it was.)

Chapter 3: The Letters From No One
1. P. 40. Could the milkman be the Creevy’s father? (Colin mentions his father in COS)

Chapter 4: The Keeper of the Keys
1. P. 55. “not jus’ then, anyway”—a hint that Voldemort will try to take over Hogwarts now that D. is gone?
2. P. 57. “Dunno if he had enough human left in him to die.”

Chapter 5: Diagon Alley
1. P 71. Quireell was in the Black Forest—was that where Voldemort was hanging out? Maybe Harry & co will be taking a trip to Eastern Europe next year & visiting their friend from Durmstrang.
2. 2. P 20 of the unofficial guide contains much speculation about whether or not the goblins might take sides in the war, and the consequences.
3. P 75. The sorcerer’s stone is in vault # 713. 7 is supposed to be the most powerful magic number, and 13… well, you know.
4. P 85. Harry “wasn’t sure he liked Mr. Ollivander too much.” Maybe he wasn’t taken by the Death Eaters after all, but went willingly? On the other hand, he said he was “sorry to say I sold the wand that did it.” And that Voldemort did great but terrible things.

Reading Schedule for 2005:
For Sept 15: SS Chapters 6-9
For Sept 29: SS Chapters 10-13
For Oct 13: SS Chapters 14-17
For Oct 27: CoS Chapters 1-4
For Nov 10: CoS Chapters 5-8
For Nov 24: CoS Chapters 9-12
For Dec 1: CoS Chapters 13-15
For Dec 15: CoS Chapters 16-18
For Dec 29: PoA Chapters 1-4

Group Aims:

Scour entire series looking for clues
• Who is RAB?
• What side is Snape on?
• What are the other Horcruxes and where are they hidden?
• Anything else that might help Harry defeat Voldemort!

Plus
• Things we might have missed the first (or fifth) time around
• Character discussion
• Historical/political/moral perspectives and themes.